I think the worst thing is the lack of accountability and the terrible budgetary system- Buhari

•We will go into action before we are sworn-in
•‘Our priorities on security, economy, unemployment, corruption’
•On indiscipline: People are more prepared to behave than in 1983

If statements from the president-elect, Major-General Muhammadu Buhari, are to be believed, the incoming administration, to be inaugurated on May 29, will hit the ground running. Buhari says he intends to put together a small cabinet that may go into action even before the swearing-in.  In a nutshell, he speaks on the shape of things to come in this interview.

By Levinus Nwabughiogu

uhari speaking with Journalists at his Daura home

There has been an influx of defectors from the ruling People’s Democratic Party, PDP, to your party, APC, since after your victory at the polls. Many think the development may destabilise the APC. How do you intend to manage the situation?

I think this is a question meant for the party. I wish John Oyegun was here to answer you because we have a system. Just because I am the presidential candidate and the president-elect, I don’t think  the system has allowed me to usurp the power of the party executives. But, certainly, in a multi-party democratic system, fundamentally, it is the number that matters for the people. But for the party, what matters is the ability to manage the number so that the majority will have its way and  there will be justice. No matter what happens to the PDP by May 29, I assure you or I assure them through you that there will be justice in the APC.

A new government, which you will head, will soon be inaugurated. Can you tell us what criteria you will be using in selecting those who you will work with?

It is a difficult time for Nigerians as you all know. I have said it in the past that, in the last 16 years, Nigeria has never realised the amount of revenue it received. The price of a barrel of crude oil rose to about 140 dollars and then  crashed to about 50 dollars. During the 16 years, we know what happened to some big companies that employ a lot of Nigerians and give them training facilities like the Nigeria Airways, Nigeria  National Shipping Line.

Even Nigeria Railway is managing to be on paper with some refurbished engines moving from Lagos to Ibadan and a few other places. If you go to their stations all over the country, you will realise that they are in a terrible shape. The important thing in a country with a huge population  of youths with more than 60 percent of them under the age of 30 who are unemployed is that you  need these institutions to give jobs and training to them. It is very disappointing that the PDP government virtually failed to use those resources to  grow the economy.

I think the worst thing is the lack of accountability and the terrible budgetary system. Imagine that over 90 percent of Nigerian budget is on recurrent. How can you sustain development in a country like Nigeria with only about 10 percent of your income? Things just have to change. There must be more money available for infrastructure, for investment in getting the factories back, employment and getting goods and services for the population. I think the sins of PDP will be coming out for several years to come.

Do  we expect a government of national unity?

Again, you want me to encroach on the party’s main power. Even if I, as president-elect, want to form a broad based government, I think that the executive of the party will have some influence on that decision. So, for me to maintain a good rapport with the leadership of the party, I want to keep your question in abeyance until further notice.

The 2015 elections did not go without pockets of violence here and there. Does that strike you in any way?

I think there are less disruptions in the second leg of the general elections on April 11 than we had  during the presidential and National Assembly elections. I hope it was as a result of the bandwagon effect because APC had the upper hand during the  first leg of elections. But what happened in the South-South and the South-East cannot be compared to what happened on April 11.

What I saw was that there was a few ballot snatching in some local government areas of Bayelsa State and a few disruptions in Adamawa, but that is nothing near what happened on March 28. I don’t think what happened on 11 is up to 25 percent of what happened  on March 28?  I think that after the elections, both parties, APC and PDP, will perhaps make their representations to INEC or the courts and then more details will emerge. Maybe we had less infractions on April 11 because the turnout was much lower. Maybe the people just wanted a president and once they got one, they just walked away. They are Nigerians and there is nothing we can do, but to convince them that they have to use this weapon which is the permanent voter cards (PVCs)

To some  extent, the general elections are seen by many to be credible. Will you try to retain the INEC Chairman to build on the successes recorded even though he said he wouldn’t accept another term of office?

I think Prof. Jega knows exactly what to do. He has already said that he is not going to accept a renewal of his tenure in June. I believe that he has learnt enough and will submit a comprehensive hand over notes some of which he seems to have written. At the last National Council of States meeting, he submitted a document of INEC activities right from the 2011 general elections to date with attachment showing the personnel trained, acquisition of election materials, the distributions, security, among others, and I don’t think that such that report can be faulted.

In fact, INEC was forced to accept the six weeks extension by the Office of the National Security Adviser. Luckily, those six weeks were accommodated within the constitutional time limit within which election must hold. The law says election must hold 30 days before 29th of May. So, INEC did not have much trouble to agreeing to the six weeks extension. As people say, it has come to pass.

There are speculations that looting of public treasury is ongoing in the land. What do you intend to do to check this problem?

I will like to work within the system because we believe in it. I have just told you about three governors and the battle they have with law enforcement agents in their states. We discussed and I  advised them to try and document these things so that they can be taken before the court and we will make sure that we register the cooperation of the court so that people who work against the law are prosecuted, especially those who have lost their immunity because this is the best way to stabilize the system.

People must not benefit from being lawless. You can’t be in a position by virtue of the Constitution, subvert the Constitution and continue to enjoy the privileges offered by the Constitution. I don’t think that will be acceptable by the APC. So, whether you are in the opposition or government, you have to behave yourself. I think that is the way we can make progress.

APC preaches transparency and accountability. But a lot of people with apparent questionable characters are moving into the APC. Don’t you think they will also pollute the APC?

For those that are coming into the APC, I have no fear because we have our party structure. The fact that you were a party Chairman or you were a minister before you joined the APC, we appreciate the fact that you remain relevant in your immediate locality. But when it comes to the centre, there is  equality in the way the government will handle you.

If we win majority of members of the National Assembly and House of Assembly in the states, it means that it is with the agreement of their constituencies that the Federal Government has the power that it has. If the Federal Government is insisting on accountability and being responsible, even if they go back to their constituencies, there is nothing they can do about the decision of the government. We are banking on that. I will give you an example of my state, Katsina.

In 2011, the CPC won all the senatorial seats and 13 out of the 15 House of Representatives seats but lost the governorship. Who did the election? Did people from space come to do the election? That is the bad thing about lack of cohesion in a party. Leadership at all levels must work in concert. Otherwise, what Katsina State suffered, any state or the centre can suffer same. Those who were chief executives from local government, to states will be encouraged to work together.

So, those that are coming in, I hope they will accept that they are coming to join those who succeeded and they should cooperate with them. They can’t come and say that because they were once ministers under PDP, they will join APC and become ministers the following month or so. I don’t think that it will be acceptable even by their constituencies.

You introduced War Against Indiscipline, WAI, as the military Head of State in 1984 to fight indiscipline. Years after, the cankerworm has remained? How do you intend to handle this? 

I will mention how it came about. When we had our first Supreme Council meeting and governors were appointed, in my office, it was only me and the late Tunde Idiagbon, we discussed and agreed that the main problem of Nigeria was indiscipline. If we could get majority of Nigerians to accept, which ever level they were, we will make a lot of progress. I could recall that I advised that we should go to the Ministry of Information because there were a lot of people with first degree, masters and Ph.D who were sociologists and criminologists just warming their seats.

They should get together and come up with a programme that will last for years and not just for six months and fizzle out. That was how we came about WAI. It was very well thought out. It was a military system. In democracy, people want a lot of freedom, but if they see the restraint in advanced democracies in Europe and America, they will realise that discipline is forced on people. There are things that, no matter how much you want to do them, you can’t do them.

I think that we have suffered enough as a people and I think that people are more prepared to behave properly now. About two years ago, I made some remarks in Hausa and people felt, now, some senior civil servants who are Directors either at the state or federal can’t educate four children because the level of education has gone down so much. Those that can afford will rather send their children to Ghana or Sudan and those who can afford it more send theirs to America and Europe because the educational system in Nigeria has virtually collapsed.

Therefore, we feel that, by voting APC into power, Nigerians are placing confidence in us. On security, economy, especially unemployment and corruption, I believe that Nigerians will give us the understanding to make sure that we get our priorities right. Education is going to be very important because when you educate the people, you solve half of your problems because there is a level that an educated person will not accept. But when people are sentenced to illiteracy, when they are exposed to all manner of social vices such as ethnicity and religion so that people don’t move forward, they are used to fight themselves.

During your campaigns you promised to declare your assets if elected. Now that you have been elected, will you stick to your position?

I made a statement which has not been correctly captured by the media. I said that our generation, from the Murtala, made sure that those who had appointments must declare their assets and this was later articulated in the Constitution.

It is up to government to make sure that those who borrow money to build a house and end up with another house somewhere else with 50 bedrooms and 20 living rooms should explain to Nigerians how they got the money. I could recall that I declared my assets three times. First was when I got my first political appointment as governor of Borno State; secondly, when I was leaving government to go to the United States War College. I declared my assets then because I was closing my political chapter then technically. I could recall that Gen. Jemibewon was the Adjutant General of the Nigerian Army then. I had to declare my assets, deposit it there to be taken to court before I was allowed to proceed to the United States for my course.

The third one was when I became Head of State. From General Obasanjo down till now, those of us who  were in the Supreme Military Council, Council of State, Executive Council and even those who were Permanent Secretaries, at the time we got our appointment, the courts should be made to produce our declarations. So, all the noise about people being rich and nobody is saying anything about it, why can’t you prick the conscience of the existing government or are some of you part of the cover up?